College Football, Florida Gators, Recruiting

Should Gators fans panic about the 2025 recruiting class?

Embed from Getty Images

Should Gators fans panic about the 2025 recruiting class?

It’s that time of year again, where I get to write about whether Gators fans should be apprehensive about this year’s recruiting class.

Normally, my message is pretty simple: look at the 247Sports Composite average player rating of a class when the season kickoff occurs and you can pretty much project where a class is going to end up. That’s served me well except for last year, as Florida’s top class fell apart at the end and wound up ranked fifth in the SEC.

Advertisements

With Oklahoma and Texas now joining the conference, that class actually ranks seventh in the SEC now, which means Florida has fallen further behind. But how much further behind have the Gators fallen, and don’t they need to win first to stabilize things so that recruiting can pick up?

Winning in the SEC – A question of talent

Whenever I write about recruiting, the first thing people tell me is that Florida needs to win first so that it can see recruiting pick up. Examples like Clemson early in the Dabo Swinney era or Mike Norvell more recently at FSU are the programs that get pointed to for those making that point.

However, that overlooks a key issue for both of those examples: those programs are in the ACC.

Clemson’s big-time winning really started in 2015. In the five recruiting years prior (2011-2015), the Tigers ranked second in the ACC in recruiting. FSU just had it’s “unconquered” 13-1 season last year. In the five recruiting years prior (2019-2023), the ‘Noles ranked fourth in the ACC, but if you look at the average player ratings of the teams they are immediately behind (Miami and UNC), their average player ratings are incredibly close (89.14 for FSU, 89.33 for UNC and 90.48 for Miami).

This is important information to have when we look at the same type of numbers for the SEC, the conference that concerns Gators fans, as shown in the following chart.

Last decade recruiting vs SEC win percentage

The chart shows the average SEC winning percentage from 2013-2023 plotted against the 247Sports average player rating from 2012-2022. I am making the assumption that winning lags behind recruiting here given the year offset, but given the relationship you can see in the chart, I suspect that’s a pretty good assumption.

The real takeaway from this chart is that while Florida has had some up-and-down years, the Gators have actually gotten exactly what they’ve deserved based on the quality of player they’ve brought into Gainesville. You can say the same thing about LSU, Texas A&M, Auburn, Tennessee and just about every other SEC program out there.

Unsurprisingly, the message is pretty clear. Talent wins games in the SEC.

But is it the chicken or the egg?

Of course, that doesn’t answer the question being posed to me by critics of recruiting. They’re not suggesting that recruiting isn’t important (if they’re arguing in good faith). Instead, they’re suggesting that you have to win to get recruits in the door, which begets more winning.

Unfortunately (or perhaps fortunately, considering Billy Napier is 11-14 in his two seasons in Gainesville), I believe the data suggests you need to recruit first, then winning comes. I can show this a bunch of ways with lots of different interpretations of the data, but to me, the following chart gives the most stark example.

Georgia vs Florida recruiting - year by year

What we see here is Florida’s and Georgia’s average recruiting ranking the three years prior to its season and its SEC record for that season, excluding SEC Championship games. So in 2023, Florida went 3-5 in the SEC (37.5% win pct) and have an average player ranking of 90.3 from 2021-2023. Meanwhile, Georgia went 8-0 in the conference with an average player ranking of 93.6 from 2021-2023.

Kirby Smart took over the Georgia program in 2016. The Bulldogs took a step back in the SEC in his first year and went 4-4, worse than Georgia had been in 2014 and 2015. But Smart immediately improved recruiting and look at the path that Georgia has followed ever since. Meanwhile, Florida has meandered around in the exact same space that Georgia was in prior to Smart’s arrival as the Gators have cycled through three different coaches.

It shouldn’t be lost on us the cliff that Florida fell off from 2020 to 2021. Dan Mullen was able to paper over talent deficits by getting more out of Feleipe Franks in 2018 and then finding Kyle Trask in 2019 and 2020. But once his QB was no longer elite, the bottom fell out.

Smart was able to weather the D’Wan Mathis, J.T. Daniels, and Stetson Bennett combination in 2020 (Bennett was bad that year) with an 8-2 SEC record and then had a supercharged program once Bennett took off.

The 2025 Class

All of this started with asking whether Florida fans should panic about the 2025 class. Currently that class is ranked 67th nationally  in point total with an average player rating of 90.28. That’s not too far off from the talent level that Florida has brought in over the past decade. Of course, Florida’s results for the last decade have not met expectations in Gainesville.

There’s also the added complication of Oklahoma and Texas coming into the conference. Right now, Florida’s average player rating of 90.28 is tenth in the SEC so the problem isn’t that Florida only has nine commits, but that the quality of those nine commits is behind the teams Florida is directly competing against. Even if Billy Napier were able to pull out 8 or 9 wins this season, that level of talent isn’t likely sustain that sort of success over the long haul.

I say that because the chart above suggests that while Dan Mullen was able to get more out of the talent he had than we might expect, it also suggests that Napier has been unable to do the same with the same level of talent. That is within the context of an SEC East schedule that included Kentucky, Vanderbilt, Missouri and South Carolina every year. Clearly that schedule is not at play in 2024 or 2025.

I still think we’ll have a much better idea of where this class is by the time the ball kicks off against Miami. Maybe Napier is able to get Vernell Brown (98.49), Nathaniel Owusu-Boateng (95.98) and flip some other high-level recruit that raises the recruiting average to a point where we are hopeful heading into the season. But I’m not sure what in his history as Florida head coach at this point makes us think that will happen beyond blind hope.

I’ve shown previously that you can tie the percentage of top-300 players in a class to final finish pretty reliably. At this point, with Florida at 33 percent of its commits in the top-300, and so the expectation should be a finish around 15th in the country. Even if Florida adds the three guys I listed above, that would project a recruiting class that finishes 9th, or essentially where Florida has ended up on the recruiting trail for the past decade. That isn’t terrible, but it isn’t good enough to consistently win the SEC unless you have a huge schematic advantage.

Advertisements

Hopefully Florida plays great in 2024 and far exceeds Vegas’ expectations. But don’t be fooled by the results, whether they’re good or bad. The data is pretty clear: Florida is going to need an average player rating of greater than 93 to consistently beat Georgia, Alabama, LSU, Texas and Oklahoma. If you’re okay finishing behind those teams consistently, then cheer and enjoy the occasional year that Florida turns in a good performance.

Otherwise, alarms should be going off everywhere. I know D.J. Lagway is the player that everyone is pointing towards as turning things around in the future. I have a piece in our preseason magazine preaching patience specifically because of Lagway. But even I have to acknowledge the glaring problem with that argument: with a slightly higher talent level, Florida got a Heisman-level performance from Kyle Trask in 2020. That team went 8-4, and 8-4 isn’t acceptable in Gainesville.

Or at least it never used to be.

Have you bought your copy of the 2024 Read & Reaction Florida Gators Preseason Magazine?

Click HERE to order your copy of the Read & Reaction 2024 Florida Gators Preseason Magazine.

The 2024 Read & Reaction Florida Gators Preseason Magazine is available in both digital (pdf) format or as a hard copy magazine you can hold in your hands. Makes for a great read at the lake or on the beach as you get prepared for this season.

Insights include:

  • How does Billy Napier use Tre Wilson to stress the opposing defense?
  • How did Florida perform in the middle-8 (last 4 minutes of the first half, first 4 of the second half) in 2023, and how did that tie to winning?
  • What did Ron Roberts learn at Baylor that should help the Florida defense?

Order yours TODAY!

 

 

13 Comments

  1. Clyde Wiley

    I don’t believe there’s any Florida fan who follows recruiting that is unaware of our shortcomings. We significantly trail Georgia, Alabama, LSU and now Texas. Oklahoma under Brent Venables maybe. But for those of ys unable to contribute hundreds of thousands or millions of dollars to NIL, what can we do about it? I find a suggestive endorsement in your article that Billy Napier has already proven to be a subpar coach not only with his 11-14 mark but as a recruiter, too. Would you advise that we all clamor for his dismissal in November, let the Athletic Association raise the $20 to 30 million to buy out his and his staff’s contracts, waive goodbye to Lagway and others, and start over? Your article distresses but offers no encouragement and suggests no remedies. In truth our talent has improved via effective use of the transfer portal. Napier has proven to be at least better than average talent evaluator and perhaps even exceptional. He’s made considerable changes in his coaching staff, only three original hires remaining, and brought in an altogether new Strength and Conditioning crew who apparently are making a difference. The head coach is not our next Steve Spurrier. Nor does he have any control or even a say about the schedule the SEC front office has laud on us. So, Will, what besides ringing our hands or running off our coach do you recommend we do?

    As for 2023 and 2024 recruiting the transfer portal helped. We got back De’Antre Robinson, Jameer Grimsley and Zemayla as well as Grayson Howard and Cormani McClain. One plucked from Texas, another from Bama, a third from Southern Cal and another the first or second rated CB in the country in 2023. How do those guys upgrade our recruiting? Maybe you need a subsequent article involving those young guys Napier brought in.

    • Lane Train! CHOO! CHOO!

      Lagway is likely gone after a 2-4 win season this year, whether or not we keep Napier.

  2. Ted

    I agree with your analysis completely but also believe that NIL is changing recruiting so much. I’m just concerned that our deep pocket alumni are waiting to see the wins before committing and that will be our lagging piece. Maybe the new Chief of Staff can make a difference.

  3. Bro, we are #67 in recruiting. In previous years, you’ve said wherever we are at this point is where we will end up. Are you renouncing what I seem to remember you writing? We might end up top 20, but that’s it. Who the hell is stupid enough to go play for a coach that wins 6 games year one, 5 games year two, and at FLORIDA! The answer is YES! PANIC! If Napier can’t recruit, why the hell did we fire Mullen? We were promised, promised, promised, the even if Napier wasn’t that great of a coach that he could recruit. It’s embarrassing to be ranked #67. And honestly, we should have fired him IMMEDIATELY when he couldn’t win six games. How can we be Florida and keep a coach that can’t win six games. What happened? Do we literally not care?

    • Comment by post author

      Will Miles

      I’m not renouncing anything I’ve said because you’ve mischaracterized my position. What I’ve said is that the 247Sports Average Player Rating tends to stabilize after the season kicks off. So if a team has a 90.5 average player rating at kickoff of the first game, they usually end up somewhere between 90-91 when the dust settles. That doesn’t speak to ranking position, because ranking has to do with volume as well as quality.

      From a player quality perspective, Florida is doing much better than #67. That #67 ranking is because the Gators only have 9 commits. For example, Penn State is currently ranked #11 with an average player rating of 89.89 because they have 22 players committed already. None of this is to defend the current recruiting. Player volume is a part of the equation, and has been a part that has been lacking under Napier (20 commits in ’24, 22 in ’23 and 21 in ’22).

      I ended the article with the exact same sentiment you expressed in your note. “8-4 isn’t acceptable in Gainesville. Or at least it never used to be.” I understand that fans are frustrated. The article hopes to express why they’re frustrated. And to be honest, the numbers show that for the past decade Florida has received exactly what it should have from the recruiting performance its coaches have put up.

      I’m skeptical that this is solely based on people supporting the program, but if it is, the only way you get them to buy in is to show them the data and what it takes. And if they are giving the support and the coach isn’t getting the job done, well then yeah, you explore a change if he doesn’t prove to drive wins through scheme (or maybe even if he does).

    • Lane Train! CHOO! CHOO!

      The UAA does not care, that is correct.

      The fans care, but not the UAA.

  4. Christopher Marcum

    Winning at a championship level is a combination of talent acquisition and adequate coaching. Ron Zook isa perfect example. He recruited at a high level. But, was a below average coach. Same with Will Muschamp. The only 3 coaches to have won a national championship that had below average coaching were Miami in 2001, LSU in 2007 and LSU in 2019. All 3 of those teams were so loaded with NFL talent that they could overcome the lack of coaching from Larry Coker, Les Miles & Ed Orgeron .

    • Comment by post author

      Will Miles

      I think you’re underselling both Miles and Orgeron as coaches. No argument on Coker. Of course it’s a mix of both coaching and talent but the Coker example is instructive. Your statement is essentially that if you have loaded rosters, you can “get away” with poor coaching. Or perhaps Coker’s recruiting was worse and so the team’s talent advantage went away over time? I’d have to look more in-depth to be sure about that example, but I suspect that if you gave Nick Saban Florida’s rosters the past four seasons he’d probably get more out of them, but he isn’t winning national or SEC championships.

    • Tiffany

      I’m hitting the panic button, and I’m ok doing that. Napier was tapped because he was supposed to be some mega recruiter. This is not reality. He also isn’t an exceptional coach. He NEVER fires anybody, they just change positions, which means there isn’t a lot of hope for anything to improve from a coaching perspective. He isn’t a “CEO” type. But he never was. This was message board hysteria from the beginning. Someone online decided he was the guy, everyone jumped on the bandwagon, and the AD followed.

      2020 we did go 8-4. With a 10 game, all SEC season (in a typical season, that would have been a 10-win season) and a weird everybody opted out of the bowl game ending. Does anybody else remember 2020? NOTHING was normal. It isn’t even comparable to any other season in history.
      Stadiums were mostly empty. Half the team had COVID one game. Team meetings were banned.
      Preseason practices were shortened. It was a very good season, it just looks bad on paper.

  5. Brian

    Good article, Will, and I love seeing your look at the wins vs talent question. I hate to be the pendant who goes “well, actually…”, but I think you’re underselling the benefit of dropping CBN’s transition class from the 3 year average next year. If we finish at 90.3 in the 2025 class, that number will replace a transition class that was 88.9 and the three year average will jump close to 91. If he recruits as well as the last two years, we jump up to a 91.3 average rating. Those numbers don’t correlate with SEC championships in a world with Kirby, but they are higher than any other points on the Gator trendline. I would be a little disappointed if we didn’t win 6 of 8 with that talent.

    Speaking of the transition class, it might give us three all-conference players (one who transferred out) and 3 – 5 starters/rotational players. How strong is that for the circumstances?

    • Comment by post author

      Will Miles

      I think when you start parsing numbers that way, we’re talking about the difference of a win or two. For a program that has gone 17-21 the past three years, that isn’t really moving the needle.

      Healthy top-10 recruiting classes should produce about 5 NFL prospects each year. For a transition class, because of size, you should probably expect 4. What you’re essentially saying with your last statement is that Napier’s transition class is underperforming (probably 3 NFL players) and is filling the gaps with rotational guys who will struggle to make the league. You can say the same about Dan Mullen’s transition class. That class had Kyle Pitts (All American), Dameon Pierce, Amari Burney and Evan McPherson who were drafted. Then you have rotation players like Richard Gouraige, Trey Dean, Emory Jones and Jacob Copeland. You also have Andrew Chatfield, who’s put up 9.5 sacks last year after transferring to Oregon State.

  6. Joe Friday

    Yes, Florida’s recruiting is horrible this year. So, according to your hypothesis that recruiting is the most important factor for success, this IS the time to panic. But recruiting isn’t the reason Florida’s a mediocre team, and will be downright awful this season. I predict U f will only win one game and finish 1-11. The most important factor is not recruiting, it’s coaching. No more glaring example is what Michigan and FSU did last season. Florida, supposedly, recruited better than both teams, but they were elite while UF sucked. The difference? Jim Harbaugh and Mike Norvell. Florida needs to fire Billy Napier. He’s a con man who has not changed his approach in any way since he stepped on the podium when he arrived in Gainesville. It’s obvious he’s not going to change anything. He only hope is that UF will hire someone like Norvell, a coach who actually knows what he’s doing instead of meandering in mediocrity like Napier.
    Back to my prediction of UF’s finishing 1-11. Before dismissing it out of hand, I suggest using your brain and throwing your analysis of stats away. After all, reviewing them hasn’t been productive in your past evaluation of how Florida would perform. Also, stop mentioning someone who hasn’t played a down, DJ Lagway. Stop chasing the white whale. He may be great, but he might also be a bust. One thing we do know, and have seen with our own eyes, is that Napier is a horrible developer of QBs. He had a unicorn, Anthony Richardson, and, somehow, turned him into a mediocre college QB.
    Finally, let’s look at the schedule and I’ll give reasons for my prediction that UF will win only one game. I won’t mention the teams that are far superior, the ones that are already double digit favorites or probably will be such by the time UF plays them.
    Miami? It’s a toss up because it’s the first game. Even the coaches have no clue how their team will perform the first time they face someone wearing a different jersey. Both head coaches are mediocre. I see the difference maker being the lines of scrimmage. I think Miami’s defensive line will maul UF. Miami’s secondary is weak, but you need a good QB to exploit it. Mertz is not a good WB. He’s indecisive and takes too long to read a defense. Many of his numerous sacks and him being “Check Down Charlie” are do to him holding the ball too long or giving up on a play and settling for a check down pass instead of taking a chance on a big play.,He’s the perfect example of how stats can be meaningless. For example, he was 20-25 against Arkansas. Great? No, he sucked.Miami’s the game I have the least confidence in predicting a Florida loss because it’s the first game and Cristobal is a horrible game day coach.
    Sanford? UF should win…. but the last time they played, UF won 70-52. This Gator defense is really bad.
    Texas A&M? Coaching! Mike Elko is far superior to Billy Napier.
    Mississippi State? Florida has had good, even great, teams leave Starkville with a loss.,Florida is a bad road team and Mertz is a bad road QB. Couple those facts with UF being a bad team,
    UCF? Again, Gus Malzahn is a better coach. They also have KJ Jefferson, who bullied UF with his legs last season for Arkansas first win ever.
    Tennessee? Florida owns Tennessee. But UF’s a bad road team and Napier’s a bad coach.
    Kentucky? It’s hard to argue that Mark Stoops is a far superior coach to Napier. When’s the last time a Gator coach lost two straight to UK? Was Bear Bryant coaching UK? UF can’t handle getting hit in the mouth, and that’s what Mark Stoop’s teams do.
    No need to go further, the rest of the schedule’s filed with teams far, far better than UF.
    Finally, UF should hire Mark Stoops. He’s done about as well as you can do at UK. One thing I feel confident in saying , if he’s hired, the days of UF putting a bad defense on the field will be over. Remember it’s not offense that wins championships. Even great offenses struggle sometimes. But defense travels…and defense wins championships.

  7. Brian

    Good article, Will, and I love seeing your look at the wins vs talent question. I hate to be the pedant who goes “well, actually…”, but I think you’re underselling the benefit of dropping CBN’s transition class from the 3 year average next year. If we finish at 90.3 in the 2025 class, that number will replace a transition class that was 88.9 and the three year average will jump close to 91. If he recruits as well as the last two years, we jump up to a 91.3 average rating. Those numbers don’t correlate with SEC championships in a world with Kirby, but they are higher than any other points on the Gator trendline. I would be a little disappointed if we didn’t win 6 of 8 with that talent.

    Speaking of the transition class, it might give us three all-conference players (one who transferred out) and 3 – 5 starters/rotational players. How strong is that for the circumstances?